Are PSA/DNA always authentic?

[tonye82]

I have always had a hard time with autographed memorabilia whether its gear or cards. I stay away from it unless I got obtained the autograph myself. I have always suspected that PSA/DNA or any other authentication service that's deeming autographs as authentic without witnessing the actual signing process is a guessing game and that there are indeed forgeries being graded as authentic and that many times the judgment is based not on whether they think its an authentic autograph but rather an excellent representation of the players known autograph. I'm talking about a signed card that someone gets autographed after pulling from a pack where its sent off to get PSA/DNA - not a card where its signed when its pack pulled (e.g. Topps Heritage Real Ones, etc.) - I have just about 100% confidence in those kinds. Do others feel this way?

[cruiserdaddy7]

Considering the issues they have spotting fake cards, who knows

[mfw13]

Depends on whether you trust the qualifications and training of the people PSA/DNA hire or not...

[discostu]

They are not always authentic and there have been countless instances of fake autographs being authenticated.

Their authentications are however stronger than someone's "word" and they are really the easiest and best for most.

[Cactuspies]

from my understanding new stuff is buy at your own risk, older stuff should be OK.

[tkraft24]

Autograph authentication isn't an exact science, it's subjective and no company is 100%. Personally, I stick with examples of signatures that I'm most familiar with and buy those regardless of whether their authenticated or not.

I'm not interested in an autographed card just because PSA or whoever else says it's the real deal. It needs to meet my quality standards first and then authentication after that is an added bonus that warrants a premium.

[MoreToppsPlease]

No. Always conduct your due diligence and compare to other autos/get another opinion when necessary. Consider where the item comes from and other factors.

Of important note: JSA doesn’t always agree with PSA and vice-versa.

[pip]

Based on my experience, I'd say about 75% accurate with a ton of bias and partiality on high-value items

[RustyDawg37]

the only way to know if an auto is authentic is to witness it. period. That doesnt mean psa is stupid or intentionally misleading. they simply offer their professional opinion. Just like anything else, with enough practice you can make great forgeries.

[jduds]

No. There are good fakes that can and do fool experts. For reference, the FBI estimated that around 90% of all memorabilia is fake. There was a recent bust of a sophisticated operation that was also faking artwork successfully. If they can fake artwork that fools experts, signatures are child's play. Use your own judgement, but I stay away from all but buying direct from major companies that have deals with players(I include pack-pulled stuff here) or in-person items. I just assume everything else is fake. The odds of any item purchased being fake is just too high to assume the risk in my opinion. The one exception to my rule are things with long personalized inscriptions. These are normally worth less and so not worth the hassle to fake convincingly when they could just stick with a plain signature.

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/news/fbi-raids-forgery-factor-of-artwork-and-sports-memorabilia

[whyconform]

PSA/DNA, JSA, Beckett are the big 3.

They have the most up to date knowledge of forgeries, signing tendencies, etc, but sometimes get it wrong. I know PSA/DNA authenticated a few bad Cap Ansons (old signature), and so forth....it happens...they're not perfect. I bet they also reject autographs that were real, like rushed sigs and such. You''ll get some rare stuff that one company says is ok and another won't.

For buying/selling, a third party is important, unless it's like a certified autograph thru topps or UD or something like this.

[JrFinest]

Always do your research and make comparisons to known signatures before buying.

[tonedef2oo8]

This topic went from a question to a wordy opinion quite fast eh?

[actionbryan]

People can counterfeit Rembrandt’s , you don’t think they can counterfeit someone’s signature ?


How anyone can look at for example a Ruth auto, and be 100% confident , no way, and it’s junk science claiming otherwise .

[tkraft24]

No. There are good fakes that can and do fool experts. For reference, the FBI estimated that around 90% of all memorabilia is fake. There was a recent bust of a sophisticated operation that was also faking artwork successfully. If they can fake artwork that fools experts, signatures are child's play. Use your own judgement, but I stay away from all but buying direct from major companies that have deals with players(I include pack-pulled stuff here) or in-person items. I just assume everything else is fake. The odds of any item purchased being fake is just too high to assume the risk in my opinion. The one exception to my rule are things with long personalized inscriptions. These are normally worth less and so not worth the hassle to fake convincingly when they could just stick with a plain signature.

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/news/fbi-raids-forgery-factor-of-artwork-and-sports-memorabilia

Meh, depends what you collect. Avoiding all IP autographs as a rule of thumb (except for the few exceptions you laid out) is a pretty pessimistic view. Unless you’re just after goats and legends, then the advice makes some sense.

For me, it’s about educating yourself and knowing what you’re looking for first. Once I identify a solid autograph my next step is to investigate the seller. What else are they selling? How do the other items look? Is there a theme to what’s listed? Also you can start a dialogue with the seller about possible provenance or the origin of the autograph.

I’ve acquired some great value buys following the above. I send all of the signed cards I buy in for authentication/encapsulation.

[justrun7]

I submitted 2 Mickey Mantle autographed cards a few years ago to PSA. They said one was bad but authenticated the other one and slabbed as authentic. I listed the other on eBay at auction once I got it in the mail. The authenticator at PSA called me within a day or two and said that card was not supposed have passed and not sure how it got slabbed. They offered me $200+ in PSA credit, which was more significant then since they still had $6-$7 bulk deals, so I took it and sent the card back to them to be destroyed. Who knows how many times things like this happen though and aren't caught.

[BigL7370]

“If you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark it guaranteed I will.”

[jduds]

Meh, depends what you collect. Avoiding all IP autographs as a rule of thumb (except for the few exceptions you laid out) is a pretty pessimistic view. Unless you’re just after goats and legends, then the advice makes some sense.

For me, it’s about educating yourself and knowing what you’re looking for first. Once I identify a solid autograph my next step is to investigate the seller. What else are they selling? How do the other items look? Is there a theme to what’s listed? Also you can start a dialogue with the seller about possible provenance or the origin of the autograph.

I’ve acquired some great value buys following the above. I send all of the signed cards I buy in for authentication/encapsulation.

Definitely pessimistic, but fits with the evidence unfortunately. Your approach is about as solid as you can get I guess. Random lower tier players are probably safe, but who knows really. I was talking about star level players and feel that if I am going to pay what their sigs go for, I'd rather pay extra to be as close to sure as I can about authenticity than to roll the dice with most bargains as there are just too many good fakes. Dealing with companies that have a direct line to a player is a good, but still not foolproof, way to do so. Even then you get chuckleheads that get their cousins or friends to sign for them from time to time. Really the only true foolproof way is to get it in person, but for folks like me in MS that severely limits the pool of players I can get.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Also of note is that the three main authentication services have multiple levels of service. The full letter of authentication with a picture of the auto(s) and description is generally thought as being the most reputable for each.

[tkraft24]

Definitely pessimistic, but fits with the evidence unfortunately. Your approach is about as solid as you can get I guess. Random lower tier players are probably safe, but who knows really. I was talking about star level players and feel that if I am going to pay what their sigs go for, I'd rather pay extra to be as close to sure as I can about authenticity than to roll the dice with most bargains as there are just too many good fakes. Dealing with companies that have a direct line to a player is a good, but still not foolproof, way to do so. Even then you get chuckleheads that get their cousins or friends to sign for them from time to time. Really the only true foolproof way is to get it in person, but for folks like me in MS that severely limits the pool of players I can get.

I guess another point for my approach is that I prefer autographs from a specific time period. If I’m getting a signed rookie card or other early card then I want the signature from the same time period. To me, it adds a level of scarcity to the piece instead of players just constantly signing RCs (with newer style sig) until the end of their days.