2023-24 NBA Season Thread

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 11:45 AM

The chip odds opened up with Denver, Boston, Milwaukee, and Phoenix as the top 4 in that order.

Joker for unanimous MVP? He won't care of course but us nerds will.

I hear talk of Dame Lillard being swapped to a contender? At 33-ish years of age his time window is closing.

JoshMN · 06-13-2023, 12:00 PM

Joker's a lock for MVP if he stays healthy. Embiid got his token, and now the "narrative" can switch from "we can't give the doughy white guy 3 MVPs in a row, can we?" to asking where in the "top 10" he fits and whether Joker is having the greatest 4-5 season peak of all-time.

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Joker's a lock for MVP if he stays healthy. Embiid got his token, and now the "narrative" can switch from "we can't give the doughy white guy 3 MVPs in a row, can we?" to asking where in the "top 10" he fits and whether Joker is having the greatest 4-5 season peak of all-time.

maybe Jokic can get the next 3 MVPs in a row

ballhawkdawk · 06-13-2023, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Joker's a lock for MVP if he stays healthy. Embiid got his token, and now the "narrative" can switch from "we can't give the doughy white guy 3 MVPs in a row, can we?" to asking where in the "top 10" he fits and whether Joker is having the greatest 4-5 season peak of all-time.

Y'all gotta give this up. It's not like some machine spits out who wins MVP. It's voted on by 99 people (and Mark Jackson, allegedly). 73 1st place votes to Embiid compared to 15 for Jokic and 13 for Giannis. You think 5x as many people voted for Embiid just because?

Jokic was the rightful MVP the past two seasons. Embiid was the rightful MVP this season. Jokic was the rightful MVP of the playoffs this season. Giannis was the best player in the world for a 2-3 year stretch, and now that player is Jokic. Regular season is regular season. Playoffs are playoffs. Things change over time.

And I'm not sure which top 10 you're referencing, but he's not even close to the all time top 10, and he's number 1 right now in the current top 10.

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Y'all gotta give this up. It's not like some machine spits out who wins MVP. It's voted on by 99 people (and Mark Jackson, allegedly). 73 1st place votes to Embiid compared to 15 for Jokic and 13 for Giannis. You think 5x as many people voted for Embiid just because?

It just shows that even experts can get something wrong en masse without the benefit of historical hindsight.

Quote:

Jokic was the rightful MVP the past two seasons. Embiid was the rightful MVP this season.

If you can make a solid all-things-considered argument for that, you'd be the first that I'm aware of.

I don't recall anything like a serious engagement from the Emvpiid crowd on the arguments. I didn't see it from Simmons or Lowe. Maybe Cowherd actually made an argument? I'm damn sure Stephen A. Smith didn't come up with something compelling, as much as he tries to use voice cadences to sound persuasive.

("Jimmy isn't in the same shot-making league as [3 second pause] Steph Curry.")

JoshMN · 06-13-2023, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

It just shows that even experts can get something wrong en masse without the benefit of historical hindsight.

If you can make a solid all-things-considered argument for that, you'd be the first that I'm aware of.

I don't recall anything like a serious engagement from the Emvpiid crowd on the arguments. I didn't see it from Simmons or Lowe. Maybe Cowherd actually made an argument? I'm damn sure Stephen A. Smith didn't come up with something compelling, as much as he tries to use voice cadences to sound persuasive.

("Jimmy isn't in the same shot-making league as [3 second pause] Steph Curry.")

Didn't Simmons already say he would regret picking Embiid over Jokic for MVP for the rest of his life?

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Didn't Simmons already say he would regret picking Embiid over Jokic for MVP for the rest of his life?

I sure hope so.

I ask how he screwed up in the first place, and how he learned from that so there's no repeat.

ballhawkdawk · 06-13-2023, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

It just shows that even experts can get something wrong en masse without the benefit of historical hindsight.

If you can make a solid all-things-considered argument for that, you'd be the first that I'm aware of.

I don't recall anything like a serious engagement from the Emvpiid crowd on the arguments. I didn't see it from Simmons or Lowe. Maybe Cowherd actually made an argument? I'm damn sure Stephen A. Smith didn't come up with something compelling, as much as he tries to use voice cadences to sound persuasive.

("Jimmy isn't in the same shot-making league as [3 second pause] Steph Curry.")

What historical hindsight? They voted on MVP of the regular season based on performance within the regular season. I'm not going to rehash the argument for Embiid, but it's time to accept reality. Bill Simmons was your boy right up until he voted for Embiid for MVP. Every word was pure gospel. The last time the wrong guy won any sort of MVP award was when Iggy won the Finals MVP.

Here's the thing... let's say you think Giannis deserved it or Jokic deserved it. Both are fair and valid positions. But it's super weird how so many guys on here keep trying to beat the forum over the head with that position. It's almost like their melanin content and BMI are so similar to Joker's that they feel he represents them and that this is personal, and the only acceptable play is to keep repeating the same thing until it gets acknowledged. It's identical to how a toddler behaves.

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

What historical hindsight? They voted on MVP of the regular season based on performance within the regular season. I'm not going to rehash the argument for Embiid, but it's time to accept reality. Bill Simmons was your boy right up until he voted for Embiid for MVP. Every word was pure gospel. The last time the wrong guy won any sort of MVP award was when Iggy won the Finals MVP.

Here's the thing... let's say you think Giannis deserved it or Jokic deserved it. Both are fair and valid positions. But it's super weird how so many guys on here keep trying to beat the forum over the head with that position. It's almost like their melanin content and BMI are so similar to Joker's that they feel he represents them and that this is personal, and the only acceptable play is to keep repeating the same thing until it gets acknowledged. It's identical to how a toddler behaves.

a lot of this is too silly to spend the time on. (Thanks for fodder for future sarcastic mocking?) I'll just say that this part is downright delusional:
"Bill Simmons was your boy right up until he voted for Embiid for MVP. Every word was pure gospel."

Clearly you don't know jack about my epistemic standards

Bosoxfan5990 · 06-13-2023, 12:28 PM

The Celtics will keep Tatum and Brown together. They'd be silly not to. They need to trade Smart for an actual distributor. They need to bring in a knockdown shooter as an additional piece.

bjho852 · 06-13-2023, 12:36 PM

I will feel sad if Damian Lillard is traded away. Really want to see him stick with one team, championship or not.

WaiverWire · 06-13-2023, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjho852

I will feel sad if Damian Lillard is traded away. Really want to see him stick with one team, championship or not.

I think Portland will keep Lillard. He’s 32 and costs 152 million over the next 3 years, with that last year being almost 60 mil.

daeve · 06-13-2023, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

I think Portland will keep Lillard. He’s 32 and costs 152 million over the next 3 years, with that last year being almost 60 mil.

He's made it clear he wants some win-now moves. Meaning #3 pick traded for vets. Portland's FO has a lot to decide/discuss between now and draft night.

The only thing that could throw a big wrench into everything is Cha trading their pick and/or selecting Scoot. I don't think they will though, as Miller looks like a near perfect fit with Melo.

90skid · 06-13-2023, 01:11 PM

Will Zion feel like Zion and decide to play the first game of the season? Or is he not feeling like Zion just yet...hmmm...

ballhawkdawk · 06-13-2023, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90skid

Will Zion feel like Zion and decide to play the first game of the season? Or is he not feeling like Zion just yet...hmmm...

Who plays more games... Zion or Ben Simmons? Ben Simmons is pumping out the "I'm in the gym" social media stuff. We're due for a few clips of him making 3s in a pickup game.

tjforce · 06-13-2023, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Who plays more games... Zion or Ben Simmons? Ben Simmons is pumping out the "I'm in the gym" social media stuff. We're due for a few clips of him making 3s in a pickup game.

Well, Simmons played more than Zion this year, and that's after back surgery.

Odds are they don't put up 82 games between them.

ballhawkdawk · 06-13-2023, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Well, Simmons played more than Zion this year, and that's after back surgery.

Odds are they don't put up 82 games between them.

I hope Simmons fails miserably when it matters (for obvious reasons as a Philly fan), but I sincerely hope he lights it up in the regular season. Rookie and sophomore Ben were a blast to watch. I'm saying Simmons plays 60-65 and Zion 40-45. I have very little faith in Zion's body holding up. I never believed it would, and the evidence thus far doesn't give much optimism that 23-24 will be magically different.

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I hope Simmons fails miserably when it matters (for obvious reasons as a Philly fan)

so that you don't get self-induced sour grapes if he has a comeback?

elontusk1119 · 06-13-2023, 04:18 PM

Dark horse MVP pick: Ant.

Siblix181 · 06-13-2023, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elontusk1119

Dark horse MVP pick: Ant.

in your dreams. you are another one that over spent on his chucking ass huh?

Braswell10 · 06-13-2023, 04:43 PM

Maybe if the Mavs can actually make the playoffs, Luka will finally get his MVP.

ballhawkdawk · 06-13-2023, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braswell10

Maybe if the Mavs can actually make the playoffs, Luka will finally get his MVP.

Agreed. I think Luka is the favorite and Jokic #2. I think Embiid and Giannis let off the gas a bit in the regular season. Jokic puts in work, but his game is a bit more effortless than that of the other two usual suspects, so in theory it should be easier to repeat performance. No one else has really been close for the past three seasons, so it's tough to find a reason why anyone other than those three will win, but Luka's usage and all around offensive game make him an easy candidate. He was the guy for maybe 6-8 weeks this season... and then somehow the Mavs couldn't even get to the play in.

GOATcards · 06-13-2023, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Agreed. I think Luka is the favorite and Jokic #2. I think Embiid and Giannis let off the gas a bit in the regular season. Jokic puts in work, but his game is a bit more effortless than that of the other two usual suspects, so in theory it should be easier to repeat performance. No one else has really been close for the past three seasons, so it's tough to find a reason why anyone other than those three will win, but Luka's usage and all around offensive game make him an easy candidate. He was the guy for maybe 6-8 weeks this season... and then somehow the Mavs couldn't even get to the play in.

i love your takes, some great stuff to mock down the road

A higher-IQ take on a Jokic-Doncic comparison is age-based. At age 27-28 Luka might indeed put up the Jokic-level value-numbers. But that's 3-4 seasons away.
(IOW the MVP voters might owe him the next 3 in a row, and then someone like Luka will be in a place to outcompete him on award share.)

Siblix181 · 06-13-2023, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braswell10

Maybe if the Mavs can actually make the playoffs, Luka will finally get his MVP.

"finally get his mvp" LMAO Luka fan boys are delusional. good luck to Luka against joker / giannis.

Braswell10 · 06-13-2023, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siblix181

"finally get his mvp" LMAO Luka fan boys are delusional. good luck to Luka against joker / giannis.

I am not a Luka fanboy, but thanks for your thoughtful analysis. He has such a high usage rate and is really the only other player in the league currently that fills the stat sheet night in and night out like Jokic, albeit at a lower efficiency.

If Luka can average 30+/9/9 it will really come down to team success.

And I say finally get his MVP because he has been the preseason favorite two seasons in a row.

06-13-2023, 11:45 AM	#1
GOATcards Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: USA Posts: 6,218 g.o.a.t.cards	2023-24 NBA Season Thread The chip odds opened up with Denver, Boston, Milwaukee, and Phoenix as the top 4 in that order. Joker for unanimous MVP? He won't care of course but us nerds will. I hear talk of Dame Lillard being swapped to a contender? At 33-ish years of age his time window is closing. __________________ whatever ninjacookies said one foo's NBA GOAT ranking (top 20-ish): MJ, Mr. Russell, Tim, LeBron, Magic, KareemLarry, WiltShaq, Kobe, HakeemJokicCurry, GiannisKevinKevin, Oscar, Jerry, Karl, MosesDirkDoctorAdmiral “Those f---ing balloons are staying up there.” -WFR, 5/5/69

06-13-2023, 12:36 PM	#11
bjho852 Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,032	I will feel sad if Damian Lillard is traded away. Really want to see him stick with one team, championship or not. __________________ Instagram (IG): bjho852

06-13-2023, 12:00 PM	#2
JoshMN Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 1,247	Joker's a lock for MVP if he stays healthy. Embiid got his token, and now the "narrative" can switch from "we can't give the doughy white guy 3 MVPs in a row, can we?" to asking where in the "top 10" he fits and whether Joker is having the greatest 4-5 season peak of all-time.

06-13-2023, 12:28 PM	#10
Bosoxfan5990 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: MA Posts: 5,557 rossisportscards	The Celtics will keep Tatum and Brown together. They'd be silly not to. They need to trade Smart for an actual distributor. They need to bring in a knockdown shooter as an additional piece.

06-13-2023, 01:11 PM	#14
90skid Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,619	Will Zion feel like Zion and decide to play the first game of the season? Or is he not feeling like Zion just yet...hmmm...

06-13-2023, 04:18 PM	#19
elontusk1119 Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 358	Dark horse MVP pick: Ant.

06-13-2023, 04:43 PM	#21
Braswell10 Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 8,992 o7star	Maybe if the Mavs can actually make the playoffs, Luka will finally get his MVP.