Trimmers: Triple sSs Sportscards, triplesssinc, Mike Skerbe, Mark Skerbe, Rich Davis - Page 12

CaptSpaulding · 06-30-2021, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn35

Timer set for the change in samples

Although having a PSA example from a known card trimmer, is a good reference.

Were it not for the trimmers there might not be anything ever graded higher than an 8 in vintage or higher than a 6 in prewar. Collectors are grateful. Just look at the wonderful cards they can get due to their contribution.

MoreToppsPlease · 06-30-2021, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Were it not for the trimmers there might not be anything ever graded higher than an 8 in vintage or higher than a 6 in prewar. Collectors are grateful. Just look at the wonderful cards they can get due to their contribution.

Absolutely. Even better yet, trimmers can make an almost endless supply!

corndog · 07-08-2021, 08:16 PM

This card was purchased by the Skerbe brothers (triplesssinc) as an SGC 8 for $325.00 in 2015,
removed from it's slab and graded a 10 by PSA and sold by Heritage Auctions for $31,070.00 in 2016.
In March of 2021, the same PSA 10 was sold by Goldin Auctions for $205,200.00.
Due to the poor quality of the SGC scan any alterations to the card can not be verified.
I can confirm that both the SGC and PSA card are the same exact card.
The PSA cert number preceding this one #25490242 is a triplesssinc sale (shown at bottom).

PSA Cert #25490243

1959 Topps Jim Brown #10

Initial value gain of $30,745.00

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by VCP masked buyer ID i***i (triplesssinc) from Ebay seller kentan2629 as a SGC 8 for $325.00 on March 06, 2015.

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $31,070.00 on November 19, 2016.

Same card was sold by Goldin Auctions as a PSA 10 for $205,200.00 on March 08, 2021.

Yellow circles are print, fiber, stain, or chipping identifiers.
Due to the poor image quality of the SGC 8 scan I am only able to discern that it is the same card as the PSA 10.

Preceding PSA cert # is a triplesssinc sale:

pip · 07-08-2021, 08:31 PM

The borders on the 1950 Bowman Otto Graham look extremely narrow.

Just about everything Triple sSs gets its hands on ends up altered in some way. In the case of the 1959 Topps Jim Brown, the corners were likely improved from nm-mt to mint. I've seen them do this to a lot of cards over the years.

MoreToppsPlease · 07-08-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

This card was purchased by the Skerbe brothers (triplesssinc) as an SGC 8 for $325.00 in 2015,
removed from it's slab and graded a 10 by PSA and sold by Heritage Auctions for $31,070.00 in 2016.
In March of 2021, the same PSA 10 was sold by Goldin Auctions for $205,200.00.
Due to the poor quality of the SGC scan any alterations to the card can not be verified.
I can confirm that both the SGC and PSA card are the same exact card.
The PSA cert number preceding this one #25490242 is a triplesssinc sale (shown at bottom).

PSA Cert #25490243

1959 Topps Jim Brown #10

Initial value gain of $30,745.00

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by VCP masked buyer ID i***i (triplesssinc) from Ebay seller kentan2629 as a SGC 8 for $325.00 on March 06, 2015.

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $31,070.00 on November 19, 2016.

Same card was sold by Goldin Auctions as a PSA 10 for $205,200.00 on March 08, 2021.

I thought Goldin was better than that.

pip · 07-08-2021, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I thought Goldin was better than that.

To be fair, how would Goldin have known? It would have taken one of the industry's top experts - someone who was familiar with triple sss's work - to determine that the card had been altered.

A blacklight might also have been sufficient, now that I think about it.

CaptSpaulding · 07-08-2021, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I thought Goldin was better than that.

Has nothing to do with Ken. In this era of TPG recertifying everything presented for review why should Ken or any other AH even give a second look to a graded card? Let's say Ken saw something on this card do we expect him to refuse to auction the card? Consignor just goes to any of the other dozen or more places who would kill for that card.

Besides don't think for a moment that the bidders on this card are not incredibly grateful to Triple S for their craftsmanship. Were it not for their efforts this card would not have been available to be purchased. Triple S is adding value to the hobby. Collectors and TPG services need them and all who are just like them.

MoreToppsPlease · 07-08-2021, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Has nothing to do with Ken. In this era of TPG recertifying everything presented for review why should Ken or any other AH even give a second look to a graded card? Let's say Ken saw something on this card do we expect him to refuse to auction the card? Consignor just goes to any of the other dozen or more places who would kill for that card.

Besides don't think for a moment that the bidders on this card are not incredibly grateful to Triple S for their craftsmanship. Were it not for their efforts this card would not have been available to be purchased. Triple S is adding value to the hobby. Collectors and TPG services need them and all who are just like them.

Yeah

MoreToppsPlease · 07-08-2021, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

To be fair, how would Goldin have known? It would have taken one of the industry's top experts - someone who was familiar with triple sss's work - to determine that the card had been altered.

A blacklight might also have been sufficient, now that I think about it.

Lol….

Bruins1993 · 07-09-2021, 03:41 AM

SGC8 to $215k PSA 10... Remember, "Never get cheated" as Joe Orlando says...

pspa123 · 07-09-2021, 10:43 AM

It's one thing if an AH is shown conclusive evidence that a card is altered. As I understand it Ken has been responsive in those situations. But do we also expect the AHs to conduct an independent review of TPG-graded cards? That doesn't seem very realistic unless something REALLY jumps out.

Now where it gets a bit harder perhaps is, do we expect AHs not to take any cards from known or suspected card doctors in the first place? As an idealist I would say yes I expect that, but it's not very realistic is it?

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2021, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

It's one thing if an AH is shown conclusive evidence that a card is altered. As I understand it Ken has been responsive in those situations. But do we also expect the AHs to conduct an independent review of TPG-graded cards? That doesn't seem very realistic unless something REALLY jumps out.

Now where it gets a bit harder perhaps is, do we expect AHs not to take any cards from known or suspected card doctors in the first place? As an idealist I would say yes I expect that, but it's not very realistic is it?

Even if they turned those consignors away, they end up with their consignments anyway via mules.

Ken has been great. As has Greg Morris and Brian Drent. What is conclusive evidence? If it is anything less than a confession from the card doctor and and a video of his altering the card, I would say it is not conclusive. PSA, SGC and BVG/BGS have all seen cards where there is conclusive evidence of an alteration yet the card was graded accurately. So now we are going to hold an AH to higher standard than the grading companies?

If the buyers don't care and the TPG don't care why should the AH care?

pspa123 · 07-09-2021, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Even if they turned those consignors away, they end up with their consignments anyway via mules.

Ken has been great. As has Greg Morris and Brian Drent. What is conclusive evidence? If it is anything less than a confession from the card doctor and and a video of his altering the card, I would say it is not conclusive. PSA, SGC and BVG/BGS have all seen cards where there is conclusive evidence of an alteration yet the card was graded accurately. So now we are going to hold an AH to higher standard than the grading companies?

If the buyers don't care and the TPG don't care why should the AH care?

It sounds like you are on the verge of loving Big Brother.

pip · 07-09-2021, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

It's one thing if an AH is shown conclusive evidence that a card is altered. As I understand it Ken has been responsive in those situations. But do we also expect the AHs to conduct an independent review of TPG-graded cards? That doesn't seem very realistic unless something REALLY jumps out.

Now where it gets a bit harder perhaps is, do we expect AHs not to take any cards from known or suspected card doctors in the first place? As an idealist I would say yes I expect that, but it's not very realistic is it?

Any card valued at $50k or more should be measured and blacklighted. No exceptions. There needs to be less time spent writing flowery descriptions and more time spent using all the hired experts to conduct basic adequacy tests. If TPGs aren't willing to reject altered cards then AHs need to step up.

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2021, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

It sounds like you are on the verge of loving Big Brother.

We both agreed AJ could sell his 49 L Roby. Everyone but PSA admits the card is altered. When the graders fail and then fail to admit fault what is one to do?

pspa123 · 07-09-2021, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

We both agreed AJ could sell his 49 L Roby. Everyone but PSA admits the card is altered. When the graders fail and then fail to admit fault what is one to do?

Join em I guess. Sing the praises of Nat and Jeromy and Dave.

pspa123 · 07-09-2021, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Any card valued at $50k or more should be measured and blacklighted. No exceptions. There needs to be less time spent writing flowery descriptions and more time spent using all the hired experts to conduct basic adequacy tests. If TPGs aren't willing to reject altered cards then AHs need to step up.

The only descriptions I ever find helpful are when they tell you something about an obscure issue or explain a grade not obvious from the scan. Otherwise, I hate all the adjectives and adverbs and nonsense. Stunning this, gorgeous that, best we've ever seen, blah blah.

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2021, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Join em I guess. Sing the praises of Nat and Jeromy and Dave.

It sucks but only few want recourse while the others want flips that show numerical grades on cards that would have never existed were it not for the skills of the card doctors.

I think Mathis' quote in SI pretty much told it like it is. Fact is that PSA has never been great at admitting they made a mistake and that was well before the Orlando era.

I know in the past of several instances that Dave bought back some big cards. Now he knows he does not have to.

If there is ever a day that collectors as a whole start rejecting altered cards in holders (assuming any of them even have the ability to id an alteration) this never changes.

pspa123 · 07-09-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

It sucks but only few want recourse while the others want flips that show numerical grades on cards that would have never existed were it not for the skills of the card doctors.

I think Mathis' quote in SI pretty much told it like it is. Fact is that PSA has never been great at admitting they made a mistake and that was well before the Orlando era.

I know in the past of several instances that Dave bought back some big cards. Now he knows he does not have to.

If there is ever a day that collectors as a whole start rejecting altered cards in holders (assuming any of them even have the ability to id an alteration) this never changes.

It's too bad there isn't a way to burn down the house and start all over. Short of that... I mean what do you do if you buy a TPG that already has put millions of bad cards out there. Probably pay lip service to caring but don't do much.

MoreToppsPlease · 07-09-2021, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

If there is ever a day that collectors as a whole start rejecting altered cards in holders (assuming any of them even have the ability to id an alteration) this never changes.

The day comes when people realize any card can be doctored into a 9 or 10 at any time…or when people start going to jail.

Scottish Punk · 07-09-2021, 11:55 AM

200k for a second year Jim Brown!!! That seems crazy if it wasn't trimmed. That price increase is why grading has exploded the trimming market. Turning a $300 card into 200k can't happen without PSA. That is 2-3 years salary for a lot of people for a small amount of work.

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2021, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

It's too bad there isn't a way to burn down the house and start all over. Short of that... I mean what do you do if you buy a TPG that already has put millions of bad cards out there. Probably pay lip service to caring but don't do much.

I think end users have to hope their TPG of choice never goes out of business.

Pink Pussycat · 07-09-2021, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

It's too bad there isn't a way to burn down the house and start all over. Short of that... I mean what do you do if you buy a TPG that already has put millions of bad cards out there. Probably pay lip service to caring but don't do much.

The part in bold is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Unfortunately it never will unless the law decides to step in.

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

The day comes when people realize any card can be doctored into a 9 or 10 at any time…or when people start going to jail.

First of all not any card can be doctored into a 9 or a 10 at any time. In addition there is just as much risk at the lower end of the spectrum as there is at the high end. If there is money to be made by altering a card it will be done, eventually. This is not just a 9/10 problem and never has been.

Pink Pussycat · 07-09-2021, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

200k for a second year Jim Brown!!! That seems crazy if it wasn't trimmed. That price increase is why grading has exploded the trimming market. Turning a $300 card into 200k can't happen without PSA. That is 2-3 years salary for a lot of people for a small amount of work.

Probably took less than a half hour to make that $200K. Disgusting what the TPGs have enabled.

07-08-2021, 08:16 PM	#278
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 14,519	This card was purchased by the Skerbe brothers (triplesssinc) as an SGC 8 for $325.00 in 2015, removed from it's slab and graded a 10 by PSA and sold by Heritage Auctions for $31,070.00 in 2016. In March of 2021, the same PSA 10 was sold by Goldin Auctions for $205,200.00. Due to the poor quality of the SGC scan any alterations to the card can not be verified. I can confirm that both the SGC and PSA card are the same exact card. The PSA cert number preceding this one #25490242 is a triplesssinc sale (shown at bottom). PSA Cert #25490243 1959 Topps Jim Brown #10 Initial value gain of $30,745.00 PSA Set Registry: none found This card was purchased by VCP masked buyer ID ii (triplesssinc)* from Ebay seller kentan2629 as a SGC 8 for $325.00 on March 06, 2015. Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $31,070.00 on November 19, 2016. Same card was sold by Goldin Auctions as a PSA 10 for $205,200.00 on March 08, 2021. Yellow circles are print, fiber, stain, or chipping identifiers. Due to the poor image quality of the SGC 8 scan I am only able to discern that it is the same card as the PSA 10. Preceding PSA cert # is a triplesssinc sale: __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

07-08-2021, 08:31 PM	#279
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,000	The borders on the 1950 Bowman Otto Graham look extremely narrow. Just about everything Triple sSs gets its hands on ends up altered in some way. In the case of the 1959 Topps Jim Brown, the corners were likely improved from nm-mt to mint. I've seen them do this to a lot of cards over the years. __________________ Dealers to avoid -- https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14831085&postcount=1 Last edited by pip; 07-08-2021 at 10:45 PM.

07-09-2021, 03:41 AM	#285
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,282	SGC8 to $215k PSA 10... Remember, "Never get cheated" as Joe Orlando says... __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight

07-09-2021, 10:43 AM	#286
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,540	It's one thing if an AH is shown conclusive evidence that a card is altered. As I understand it Ken has been responsive in those situations. But do we also expect the AHs to conduct an independent review of TPG-graded cards? That doesn't seem very realistic unless something REALLY jumps out. Now where it gets a bit harder perhaps is, do we expect AHs not to take any cards from known or suspected card doctors in the first place? As an idealist I would say yes I expect that, but it's not very realistic is it? __________________ "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity." Opening narration, The Outer Limits.

07-09-2021, 11:55 AM	#296
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 7,786 scottishpunk	200k for a second year Jim Brown!!! That seems crazy if it wasn't trimmed. That price increase is why grading has exploded the trimming market. Turning a $300 card into 200k can't happen without PSA. That is 2-3 years salary for a lot of people for a small amount of work.